a·poc·ry·phal
Of questionable authorship or authenticity.
Erroneous; fictitious
Apocryphal Bible. Of or having to do with the Apocrypha.
Get this. A man is suing the Catholic Church for proof that Jesus existed.
I'm not kidding. It's on CNN.
He says the church is doing a lot of harm by continuing to profess that the man they build their credibility on is in fact not all that credible. He argues that all the historical proof of Jesus is not exactly "historical" but is merely fictional representations used to write a book, The Bible. He calls it a "con" and an abuse of the public's faith, the claim that Jesus ever existed. He calls Jesus a fictional "character", a mythical figure used to tell parables.
Use some common sense, man! Are you saying that Jesus is Coyote??
He sued a priest because he couldn't sue the Pope. The case was then stopped because the prosecutor said there was no evidence to take the process farther because there was no way to confirm or confute the claim that Jesus was who the church professes he is. The church claims there is evidence in the gospels and in Greek and Jewish histories. But this man claims that the gospels cannot prove Jesus.
Okay, I tend to agree with him that the Bible cannot prove the Bible. Many times the church uses this sort of circular reasoning. But it seems to me there are enough historical accounts of Jesus outside of church documents, including the sarcophogus of James, Jesus' brother, which states "James, brother of Jesus" on the side in script.
But let's assume Jesus was not real, that he was indeed a mythical figure. Darn. Millions and millions of people are going to feel pretty stupid upon death when they find this out for themselves. The thing is, I'd rather spend a lifetime believing in a fairytale then an eternity burning in hell.
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7 comments:
I understand his point, and maybe an objective debate weighing pro and con evidence would be very interesting -- but in an academic setting. A lawsuit? That's not only frivilous, but opens quite a can of worms. Was Mohammed real? Socrates? Can I now sue all those commercials trying to take my money and getting me to buy stuff in December because I believe in Santa?
This guys reasoning sounds familar. I wonder if he got his ideas from seeing or reading the DaVinci Code.
Actually, the Da Vinci Code argues that Jesus clearly DID indeed exist, citing as proof a number of sources from outside the Bible like the Dead Sea Scrolls and various other writings that were considered heretical by those who put together the Bible. The controversy with the Da Vinci Code is its questioning of whether Jesus was divine and its theory of what the Holy Grail "really" was.
The "anonymous" message was written by me. I just forgot to type my name before hitting the submit button; I'm not trying to hide. -- Peggy
you either have faith or you do not. that's what it all comes down to. you can be hard-hearted or you can have faith. if you have no faith, all of what I'm saying right now is worthless to you. 1 Cor 1 and Romans 1 has the answer to this. you can't have faith if you are a worldly person. if you are a worldly person, you act like a pagan, just like everyone else does and you have no ability to do otherwise. you are trapped in your own prison. it is only Jesus who can free you from that. you are a slave to your sin unless you have Jesus in your life. and all this talk about faith is absolutely meaningless to you. Having been a person who had no faith but only a intellectual "belief" in God and Jesus, I had was spiritually dead and it was very obvious. Now that I'm no longer spiritually dead, I see things much differently. I was once clueless and bumping my head into things all the time so to speak - constantly falling into one mess after the next, and constantly fighting with people. I was a mess and lots of people knew it. You can just ask them. Now I'm totally changed from the inside. it's not a ritual or procedure that I follow. it's a relationship. if you don't have the understanding that I have then you are also spiritually dead. I don't care how long you say you were Christian or how long you believed in God (I did for 33 yrs and was dead the whole time). If you don't know what I'm talking about you are also dead and going to hell. It's that simple.
you can prove the Bible but it has nothing to do with circular reaoning. Those who resort to that circular tactic are not very talented and you should just ignore it. I'll present two ways briefly. One - when you read it, is there something in it that convicts you - a conviction that comes from beyond just words on a page. I'm not talking about making you want to perform a series of "religious" rituals and procedures; no, I'm talking about something on the inside, a truth that goes beyond simple reasoning. Second, you can prove it scientifically. Yes, true science does not contradict the Bible - only foolish people who purport to be "scientists" but are really not say that and try to get you to believe that (ie: most university professors). You have to understand what a "transform" is. It is a mathematical formula that is used in engineering to convert one set of data into another so that you can more easily deal with it. (I'm using laymans terms) Examples are Fourier and Lorentz transforms. Lorentz transforms are used to account for the gravitational time dilation effect in interplanetary space travel (you should have learned of the hyphothetical twin brothers in physics class - one travels to Alpha Centauri and comes back younger than his twin on earth...) Same thing with Bible. You have to deal with it in a different dimension, so to speak. If you understand mathematical models and how the universe is arranaged in mathematical sequences, it will not be hard to see this. Example is Fibonacci sequences (1,1,2,3,5,8,13,...etc). The Bible is written in a Heptadic structure and you can prove it is not random using straightforward well accepted methods of statistical computations and analysis. ie: if something is so rare that it is not normally found naturally, then it can be proven to be supernatural (in this context). You need to do a study on the Heptadic structure of the Bible but unless you understand mathematical models, scientific procedure, and statistical anaylsys, it will go over your head and you'll not be able to distinguish between the "wheat and the chaff." There is a structure that no other form of literature uses and it is so intricate that it is not possible for a human to have come up with it. Even hundreds of supercomputers working at 10 tries per second would require a million years to come up with it by random chance. I'm watering this down but you get the point. There is alot of good solid information out there but for those who refuse to believe God means what He says and says what He means, all this is a waste of time. You either have faith or you don't. And none of this matters if you have no faith. You'll argue with anything you want even if it is beyond a shadow of a doubt because you refuse to submit to God. You want to do what you want (your sinful nature), you want it YOUR way. You refuse to believe the Bible may be true because you think you are going to argue with God on judgment day. that is really stupid. it is pride that says "I am going to be like God". "I am going to be my own God and decide myself what is right and what is not right". That is foolish. Read proverbs - the fool, the simple minded, and the mocker - all three end up in hell.
Second, you can prove it scientifically.
Prove what scientifically, exactly? That the Bible was divinely inspired?
If any part of Christianity can be proven scientically, there's no reason for faith. And God wants all to be saved. There's no reason to seek some cryptological message riddled away in (admittedly faulty) copies of copies--we know Jesus came to earth and saved humanity. Thousands of people come to this realization every day.
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