I just read this article from the Washington Post:
SAN FRANCISCO -- Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was declared unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge ruling in the second attempt by an atheist to have the pledge removed from classrooms. The man lost his previous battle before the U.S. Supreme Court
I used to recite the pledge of allegiance every day at the beginning of class for almost 12 years. Why does one man -- an atheist of course -- think so highly of himself? He's either a really angry, spiteful person, or he's looking for fame.
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Nope, he is actually hurt by the words involved. Listen, I love the pledge, I want my daughter to say the pledge in school, but I don' want her kowtowing to someone else's religious beliefs. Here in Virginia, every day start with the Pledge of Allegiance, which I am wholly for, provided the Pledge is in it's original form, with no references to someone else's belief structure. Please understand I don't hate religion, I don't disdain Christians, I DO DISAGREE with them however on some fundamental issues of this world, and want the right to raise my daughter to believe what I believe. If she chooses to believe otherwise once she's an adult, that's going to be her choice. But I will NOT have her ostracized for deciding not to recite the pledge that goes against her household's beliefs! Why can't religion stay a private matter?! Your beliefs are your beliefs, don't trot them out in public, and I won't make fun of you, in the reverse, I won't trot out mine, so you won't make fun of me, deal?
Hm, anonymous poster. Since when does saying anything mean you have to believe it or that it's being forced on you?
If I lived in a country that was not historically Christian, I wouldn't complain about my kids having to recite a pledge to, say, General Mao or Buddha or Allah or whatever. "It's part of school, honey," would be the correct response. "We need to respect other's beliefs."
"But I will NOT have her ostracized for deciding not to recite the pledge"
Like that would EVER HAPPEN. Kids don't not play with other kids just because they decide not to recite the pledge.
"Why can't religion stay a private matter?!"
Because religion is by definition NOT a private matter. It's ridiculous to act as if it ought to be.
Saying it doesn't mean I have to believe it, and I certainly won't but why would government, why would YOU want to force me to say something I don't believe?!
"Kids don't not play with other kids just because they decide not to recite the pledge"
I'm sorry, but what world do you live in? Kids judge other kids by the color of the backpack! Why have the government force one more thing that creates differences?
Just because it's historically so don't make it right....in 1860 Slavery was a historical precedent too...
It's not ridiculous to expect religion to be private....I don't go proseletyzing atheism, because I consider it a private matter...the politicians today obviously disagree because they wear theirs on their sleeves now, but that doesn't mean I think it's right...or polite...it's not ridiculous, it's a difference of opinion....
No one proseletyzes religion in public schools these days either. I don't agree with forcing children to recite the pledge, but then who is? You said you love the pledge. Why not teach your daughter to say all of it except the "under God" part? Why is it that the entire pledge is bad because it happens to contain the word God?
Okay, agreed, in today's society, separation of church and state requires that the name of God not be spoken in public, but it's a pledge that's been around since the beginning of time! You don't have to say the word "God" if it hurts you to say it, but the pledge is not about brainwashing children into believing in something they don't. It's a pride-for-country issue more than a religious one. Fight the ten commandments, fine. I can understand that argument, but striking the pledge from schools because of the inclusion of one word seems a little over-the-top.
Laura, I'm not fighting the pledge, I'm fighting the revision of t he pledge. In the 50's, as a way to further distance ourselves from the 'Godless Communists' the words 'under God' were ADDED to the pledge, it actually spent more time on the planet in it's original form, than in the form we know today! I actually said
"Listen, I love the pledge, I want my daughter to say the pledge in school, but I don't want her kowtowing to someone else's religious beliefs."
Just remove the words 'under god' and my problem is gone, and I'm 1000% behind the Pledge! If another person tells me I hate America because I don't like being forced to include or exclude those words, I'm gonna scream....the fight is not about hating the pledge, please don't read that into it, that's NOT IT AT ALL....I don't like being forced to accept someone else's Theism as part of my joy of America! I thought that one of the reasons the Pilgrims came here was to escape just that.
To me the Pledge is a celebration of America, and I truly feel very strongly about the Pledge, I tear up when I say it. But when I have to choose to either say the words, and cheapen my beliefs, or not say them, and get stares from fellow citizens, because it has become such an issue, I groan under the burden placed upon me by my government, which causes a division in our people, when the Pledge is all about uniting as one with a love for America...THAT'S what really hurts...
Fred -- I totally respect your opinion on the matter. I do specifically because, as I wrote in an earlier blog, it literally hurts me every time one of my coworkers says, "J-- C--!" or "Godd*mn" in a negative way. It actually physically chills my blood. So if saying "under God" is the same as that, then by all means, remove it.
Now what can I do about my coworkers and their disrespect for religion?
Laura, I wish I knew, here's where I'm going to get on my self-righteous soap-box, I used to say that all the time, until I realized(grew up) it offends people, I can't say I never ever say it, to be honest it's a darned fulfilling little pair of phrases when I hit my thumb with a hammer, but I DO NOT use those words in public specifically because it does hurt and offend people...I actually have had to chastise a couple of my employees recently for it....it doesn't really offend me, but it makes me very uncomfortable, even when I say it myself after hitting my thumb with a hammer...
Now, this may make me a hypocrite, and if so, please tell me... I believe in my right to use those words of my own volition, and at a time and place of my choosing....I just choose not too..if I want respect, I have to show it, yes?
Here's the key phrase in your comment, "If I want respect, I have to show it". Exactly. If you're going to go around saying Gdamn all the time, then you better be prepared when I start singing Praise songs at or near your desk all day long.
The thing is, if I know you're an atheist, I'm going to respect your space because I know you don't want to hear me rambling on about God. But if you know I'm a Christian (and believe me, they do) then why would you yell out the words Jesus Christ in disgust every time you are annoyed, when you are two feet away from me. Frankly, it's rude and disrespectful.
That's sort of why I'm so miffed about this pledge thing. It doesn't seem offensive to me, but I'm not opening my mind enough to realize that it does offend some. If I were to superimpose the words "under Satan" I'd be equally offended. So, point taken.
So that brings us back to the Golden Rule. The only real words to live by.
Fred writes, "I tear up when I say [the pledge]." Perhaps now I understand why he thinks kids are so cruel-- they made fun of him for being a crybaby. You poor thing. OR, maybe he just get made fun of for being so DRAMATIC. Seriously, do you think he tears up when he says the pledge? Wow! Now, That's patriotism. Ok, I'm joking and I know that's harsh (try not to cry!), but come on! Not only is Fred an athiest, he's a liar, he doesn't "tear up".
In all seriousness, those of us that love the Lord aren't going to forget Christ's sacrifice on Calvary merely because "under God" isn't in the pledge. Frankly anyone who does, wasn't all that aware of God's omnipotentce and omnibenevolence anyway.
Last, who even says the pledge? It's only required to be recited in schools in 6 states in the US. Six! I couldn't even tell you the last time I said it. Actually that's a lie, I had to recite it at my swearing-in ceremony. I guess people will be boycotting US currency next b/c it says "God" on it. "No, Boss, I won't accept my paycheck and I wont' spend this filthy money!" Oh wait, that will never happen.
-K
Anonymous, I'm sorry we can't all be the stoic pillars that you obviously are, but I do love my country, and the Pledge conjurs up images of days gone by, and people struggling for theirs rights...hmmm, it does sound familiar no?
Additionally, if you have no better argument than to call me a liar, perhaps it's best if you not speak, since you really don't know me and how I am....am I in touch with my feelings? Yep....am I actually a woman inside, fighting to get out? That's certainly debatable...
On an interesting side note, as rude as it is to say GD...it's ruder to call someone a liar....were you in my presence when you said it, you'd be laying on your back explaining yourself...just because you're on the internet doesn't excuse such behavior...and a true 'Christian' should feel properly remorseful, and apologize....will you?
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